Yes, I know this is old news now, but I have read so many posts on the topic in the last couple of days I felt it only appropriate to add my thoughts.
I am never going to be in a random dungeon again.
Yup, there I said it. I am never going to get a silver in the proving grounds and that means I am not likely going to be raiding in WoD…sound a little dramatic? Well you know me
Here is the post from WoWinsider, and below you will find some of the blog posts about it that I have read.
I have always considered myself a decent player, I don’t hit top level dps or bottom, I am in the middle somewhere, I follow my rotation, I gem/enchant all the thingz and I don’t stand in the fire. I also don’t go around abusing people for being dumb arses or not knowing their classes. I help where I can and offer tips if I see something can be done differently.
So far, with my current gear of 545 ish, I managed to get a bronze the other day – on my second attempt, just. I tried for a silver and missed it by about 15 seconds. Did it make me a better player knowing I had a timer ticking down ?? No, it made me bat shit nervous. I also couldn’t decide if I was to AOE or single target – because in heroics….who the heck single targets after the first week?? Let me rephrase, who has a chance to single target?? Am I better at my class now that I have a bronze..nope, will I be better if i get a silver – highly unlikely – if I can’t get a silver it will mean I get annoyed and stop trying because I don’t need to pass a timed event to know I can play my class well enough for LFD/LFR and yes, even normals!!!
I might go back and do some more practice in the proving grounds, but honestly it didn’t do it for me, and I have vague recollection of attempting it when I first hit 90 and not even getting through the first round because I was CCing and being careful..turns out the mobs don’t move in bronze so I wasted precious seconds faffing about – but how am I supposed to know that? If soloing content, I CC as much as possible, that is my shtick, it is one of the reasons I became a mage, but the proving grounds does not allow for that. (I have not attempted the grounds on a tank or healer so I have no idea about what happens).
I am not saying I dislike the proving grounds – I like the concept, just because I don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean anything, however, I don’t think they should be used as a gating into heroics. Maybe you have to complete all the normal modes before doing heroics so you at least know the fights, or maybe you have to do some number of scenarios – but I always felt 5 mans was where you were supposed to learn how to play in a small raid situation. As other people have said, this is going to make the abuse even worse because people will expect a certain level of skill by having a silver, but I will guarantee you people will still pull extra mobs, stand in the fire and will not kill the healers first – even when they have a silver – and it will not make heroic get completed any faster. It will make for much more abusive players.
There is no right or wrong to this, clearly Blizz are listening to the player base whinging about the crappola in 5 mans, but I can honestly say, I leave runs more for the abusive wankers in runs than if we have a bad tank/healer/dps. When I think back to a few months ago, that was me when I was starting out and had no gear and was nervous about tanking in front of non guildies ( I still won’t do LFR on my tank) I cut people some slack and allow them time to learn.
This is a game to me and I don’t want to have to produce a resume to get into an instance because it won’t happen. With 10 million players you are bound to run into scrubs, perhaps if people stopped being arseholes, it would be better. Consider heroics used to take 30-40 mins to complete, now we are lucky if they take 10 in some cases. Instead of abusing someone perhaps offer some tips to people that run would only take 15 minutes to complete and you would not be in such a tizzy. Also consider that most people are unlikely to be logging off straight away (I did say most) and so it really is not going to affect you overall if you spent an extra 10 minutes in a heroic – the world will not end, hell will not freeze over and cats and dogs will not be living together and causing MASS HYSTERIA!!!!
We don’t need gating, what we need is for people to show just a centimetre of tolerance. That is all. Just show some respect to a fellow human being who loves this game as much as you and start using the kick function for the cyber bullies in this world who feel it is ok to abuse people. (Tangent : the last sentence spoken to us in a pvp match last night – “you are all fucking idiots and suck” – that sticks with me even now as I was trying to do what the rules dictate but others weren’t – why am I the idiot? It is hurtful and not needed, we lost – surely it doesn’t make you feel good to abuse strangers?!) To be this entire thing is about cyber bullys and we – as a collective – need to stamp it out. We need to take back the 5 mans and we need to start telling people it is not ok.
** Edited to add** I decided to go back on my tank and try out Bronze level, just to see what it was like. I sucked. I kept getting caught at one spot because I didn’t self heal, being a pally and all. Honestly, I have run a few heroics on my pally and I have very rarely had to worry about self healing other than from my Seal. I had to try the Bronze level approx 6 times I think and after the 4th time I was ready to throw my computer. I tank heroics now, quite well and without issue, I have even tanked some raids on my pally. Why the hell was I struggling with PG?!?! Because it is a test – and I have to pass that test. I do not do well under pressure. Has that experience made me a better tank – nope….because as I have said before – PG is not live. It is not being in a raid/heroic. It does not allow for the fact that if I was to self heal – the healer would be pissed at me for wasting their heal/mana/cast – in some cases. I have even been told by some healers to turn of my seal because it messes with them (not often – I will be truthful – but it has happened). PG doesn’t allow for the intricacies of play which need to be learnt for heroics - using CC on mobs, actually picking up the god damn bombs and throwing them at mobs, or jumping to avoid the sticky goo, or tank switching on 3 stacks or bouncing a stupid random ball. Playing a class is not simply about DPS checks or holding aggro – learning the basics won’t mean anything if you can’t understand the boss fights in heroics – which is normally the main reason for abuse. I stand by my statement that you need to have done the normals (in that spec as well?) before you can do heroics as a better option, but I am not Blizz
I am not sold on it and I am one of those people that are likely not going to be able to get a silver without some serious man hours involved…..but I guess it all depends on this re-tune they give it.
**Edited to add – before you all go crazy at me – my plan is to do this on a healing toon some time this week and see how badly I go. I say that because I have never done healing on a toon before (2 weeks on a shammy in BT does not count) – so it will be as though I have just been given a toon with timeless isle gear and told to jump into a heroic. This will give me a better practical understanding of how this may help better prepare people for roles. Let’s see how I go and if I manage to do it before this post goes live :p
I am currently sitting midway into level 87 and I will honestly say – hand on heart – I am sick of levelling already. It feels long. Really long this time. I normally don’t mind questing, but I am finding it particularly frustrating this time around.
My very quick reasons for this – is the maps are confusing and quests are spread out all over the place. I have felt as if I have spent all day running back and forth for like 2 quests, or you find a random in a forest who has 3 quests but had you not walked past him you wouldn’t have known they were there. I would prefer you have a map with one city in the middle and some dude hands you out 50 quests all at once, then I can just go around the map and do them in some semblence of order. Yes – I want order!
The second issue I am having is being unable to find ways to get into quest hubs, yesterday I spent 30 minutes riding around an entire map to find an entrance that was on my map, but not when I got there. It has happened multiple times. Yes I know it is not Blizz’s fault because I get lost, but if we sued the above solution, I wouldn’t be annoyed about it ! :p
See, very quick negatives, onto the other things!
I have run both available dungeons :
First time I ran it I got locked out of one of the boss fights because the tank ran in like a looney – although that seemed to be a theme with the runs I went on today (5 – if memory severs me correctly). I didn’t get a chance to enjoy my time in there so I really cannot comment, I hate the first boss who requires you spend the entire fight running in a circle….what a stupid fight for people that need actually cast….stupid….
The last boss in this place, I SWEAR!! did different things when I went in…so I am assuming there is a random element to it..it may help if I actually read the dungeon journal – I might do that tonight :p I liked this instance, the litle elemental things are in it They are awesome! Bad image but you know which creatures I am talking about.
I have been taking great care to read things and just enjoy the small things that are always in the game but generally missed out on.
A guildie also found one later that said something along the lines of scratching their botom they sniffed their finger and will never do it again. I must try and track it down, it was funny :) I liked the Hozen, not as annoying as JaJa binks but almost!
I am having massive bag space issues as the gear I am getting all looks so awesome, I am wanting to keep it, but my void storage is completely full, so is my bank and my only options now are to go through and delete any double ups of gear – like for my tier 13 stuff I have duplicate LFR pieces that I was using for PVP etc…I can get rid of them now and that may free up some space, but for the few pieces that will get rid of, I have already gotten quite a few novelty items from quests that I can’t bear to part with like my puntable marmot. So transmog is an issue. I am a fully fledged addict. I want to enter more competitions! LOL
I am having issues with my mage – my damage seems to be crap. I tried frost with no luck – I was struggling to get the hang of it, and am now trying fire. I seem to spend far too long killing one mob, my normal spells are hitting for less than 20k (they used to hit for almost 30k and up to 50k for a crit) - I have to investigate what changes were made, was the damage output reduced for everyone or are the mobs just that much harder to kill? I am feeling quite distraught about it. Fire is still RNG, although I enjoy the playstyle, I was barely doing 14k on some fights and others I was hitting just over 23k….which in my mind is pathetic. If I get a chance over the next couple of nights I will start my investigations, this will be an easy fix once I figure it out I am sure.
Overall, I am enjoying myself! I can’t wait to get to 90!
Today – there is nothing I can say. NOTHING!
I was inspired to run it on most of my toons until I finally won the roll Thank the Blizzard gods for account mounts is all I can say.
I tried to get the original one I don’t know how many times, I am still annoyed I never got it – so this has made me somewhat happy. I could not stop grinning like a madman! Thanks for those involved and thanks for getting me inspired before dinner to continue doing it until I had it!
My rogue is level 17 Highest level rogue by miles now. Still not sure if i enjoy it, although it has grown on me since hitting 15 and being able to run dungeons. The fact that I am top on dps helps. I won’t discuss any further the horrific LFD runs at that low level – suffice it to say…I think I had the deserter buff more than I was in a run.
Not sure if I mentioned this, but hubby joined frosties on his druid and is now 83. We are still new and feeling a little like outsiders – but that happens with every guild, but so far I love the sense of humour in the guild. They have me giggling a fair bit when I am online. I actually find I am wanting to log onto my dath toons, wishing my AT toons were there…I really do enjoy the people…when they are chatting. I would say 60% of the time guild chat is pretty quiet.
It is fun running dungeons with hubby healing me as I tank. Two more levels and we can start doing heroics, after all, I am only getting 13g for every run, I don’t mind though as it is only costing me about 2g repairs since I am not even close to dying, but I would like to be getting some JP/VP and not just coin.
We may move our other horde toons over, but it really isn’t important at this stage – it would just be nice to have other toons with maxxed professions (or close to max) that can aid us. We have discovered that Dath has a crappy AH…there is not much on there and anything that is on there is so uber expensive compared to what we are used to on Aman’thul. That decision will likely be made on Friday – but I would want to bring both with me…hunter and shammy, he would bring pally and hunter. Decisions, Decisions.
Onto some other news, which I have yet to tell my GM about, I will be breaking the news to him tonight. It looks like in my bid to get healthier, I will be starting karate in a fortnight. Their 2 training days happen to be the same days we raid. I will now only be available to raid on Sundays with them and that means I am not likely going to be raid leading for them in MoP, of course, we don’t have a date for MoP, and i can’t tell the future…but it is not looking hopeful.
I had my day off on Wednesday and so I spent some time giving my warrior some love
Started off doing Ahune on all my toons – stupidly I was tanking on my pally when I signed up as healer and I didn’t even realise…DUH!
After those 4 were done, I decided to run some normals on my warrior, just to get rid of some gear – I am wearing tanking greens, but they are greens :) I want to be able to at least be running twilight heroics…possibly LFR, but I am not overly stressed about that. I am already running LFR on my druid and I have no idea how people do it multiple times on their various alts…I could probably handle it on one more toon…but that would be the limit.
Anyway, every run, I explained to the group that I was building my set so my threat generation was a little slow and to be please be aware. I had absolutely no problems. I think my little warning let people know the situation and it made things so much easier. If I lost mobs I got them back very quickly, overall no one died in the 6 or so runs I did and I was quite happy with it. No one yelled at me or gave me shit – that made me happy as well.
I am half blues now, 1 epic and the rest still greens, I am getting there. I can run heroics now for cata if I want to, but I will hold off until I am happy with my gear – a little more change would be nice. I don’t want to run into heroics and get squished with one hit.
I was quite happy with my effort and I have missed tanking on my warrior…I do enjoy my pally as well, but my warrior has been around as long as my mage has, and holds a very special place in my heart
He was quite happy to be getting back into the dungeons as well…kept jumping around like a crazy cow. I think he is just happy to be having company again.
Logtar has suggested another deep thinking topic:
The last couple of years in WoW have changed the game quite a bit. While it is very easy to jump into the “elite” vs “casual” vs “noob” bandwagon type of discussion, what is causing it I think is a more interesting topic.
Do you guys think that the LFR and LFD kill the sense of community, but taking it one step further; does it also kill the passing down of knowledge?
I know I did learn a lot from reading the web, but even now I get tons of information from my guild. If I have a doubt, I ask the question and most of the time someone knows off the top of their head where an enchant is, or what the best glyph is, etc. I don’t take that community for granted, but it was built before there was a LFD. We are together because we did have to take the trek to the meeting stone. Now we have a button that 1 person uses and BAM we are all there. We know why that is cool, but many of the new players really don’t know what that really means.
So are the new tools for grouping killing the knowledge sharing?
I think this is an interesting concept but only because I started the game when we had very little information available to us to work with. Not that I want to belittle the stuff people are doing know, but we didn’t have the huge amount of resources for strats, gear, rotations and general information.
We used Thottbot and Alkhazam because they were the most up to date and had the most information, and we learnt by trial and error and of course – the longer you play the more information and sites you discover along the journey.
I don’t know LFD or LFR etc are killing the passing down of knowledge, but I think they are killing the sense of community – only because people seem absolutely incapable of being nice or just shutting up. It’s a hard question to answer simply because we have nothing to compare it to. In 40 man days for example, my first raid I didn’t read anything about the bosses – or watch videos – I don’t really remember there being anything to read or watch. I knew the fight from having it explained to me.
I was in a LFD run yesterday on my hunter trying to get some levelling done on her, and for the first time since the LFD tool came into being, I was expelled from a group!!
Two points – I was about to leave anyway and I managed to get a big old “F*** You” off before I got dumped.
We were in undead Strat, and we wiped 3 times before I got booted because the “tank” would just charge into an area and of course all the nearby mobs would aggro, then a flying gargoyle would aggro more and it was just overall stupid, then I watched the mage run straight into a group of zombies and a banshee.
Suffice it to say, we got back up and kept going. However we moved just around the corner and the same thing happened, tank charged into massive group with everything nearby aggroing as well, then someone pulled the bunch of 8 mobs to the left and my pet…decided to run to the furthest mob which then aggroed three more mobs.
Of course we wiped and the tank started screaming in party, I apologised for my pet grabbing three extra mobs as I had targetted a different mob to the one I put him on, but I forget to take him off assist and it was all bad.
However as I was typing my response of “my ONE mistake does not count for the 3 you made or the 2 the mage made, I have no idea why you are screaming at me – go F*** yourself!” I hit enter, saw it go into party, and as I was about to drop – I was booted. Yes I realise it was 3 people voting me off the island but if I had been in the group I would have left the group anyway because I wouldn’t want to run with someone that rude - I can’t count how many times I have dropped groups because people are just flat out rude to each other.
I am not the kind of person to ever get angry like that in game, I try to respect everyone equally. Yes I stuffed up – I did apologise and I am only level 47 on my hunter, so I am still learning – but why am I the source of your abuse for being a retard that doesn’t know you should LoS pull in Strat, and avoid just running into the centre areas because everything nearby does aggro?
I was so upset about it last night, because I felt I had been too rude to him in chat – that will forever be on my record now. But he was soo nasty about one mistake, one mistake.
I have run some shocking LFD’s – tanks in DPS gear, tanks in all greens, healers in wrong specs, dps below 3k, I have seen it all and I have seen some unbelievably nasty things being said in those runs, and it still amazes me that people can be so horrible to other people.
There is a reason why rape, bullying, murder, war and famine etc etc all keep occurring – because the human race as a group – can’t be nice to each other – we have to compete and be better and belittle and pick on the weaker…..it’s disgusting. Are we really the minority – the nice onces?
I was speechless earlier today..completely….I decided to jump on my level 33 priest this afternoon and do a couple of runs with the LFG thing…
you know it is going to get bad right about now right?
I am in there, trying to facemelt things, running dry with mana and thinking I was having an alright time, until some dickhead in the party – says “What’s with the priest they just leeching xp?” to which I said nothing…I was WTF-ing at my monitor.
He then goes on to say – “priest doing 0 DPS”
I then say :
“I didn’t realise I was meant to be a fucking expert at this level”
his response was “you’re doing zero dps”
“I hate selfish people like this priest!”
and then thsy started spamming recount on me and I was doing like 78 dps…so according to that i was doing 78 more points of DPS than was quoted by dickwad…
But what annoys me is wtf is dps at lvl 33? It was SM library FFS…..did you want me doing 10k dps already? I have like 5 spells to use, 3 of which don’t get any benefit in low level places where mobs are dying before 2 ticks have gotten off…..
It has really annoyed me!!